What kind of trad climber would whine about there not being a station at the top of a trad route? What kind of climber seeks consistancy in climbing?

I guess you have two choices, 1) climb the route as it was done first by the person who made the effort to clean it, maintaining the original sense of adventure, or 2) alter the route to make it easier/more convenient for yourself, break from years of tradition and dumb down the experience, disrespecting the first ascensionists efforts by scarring the rock with bolts that are not needed.

Josh Phelps and the like, you and people like you will help keep integrity and tradition alive in climbing, thank-you for respecting and appreciating the efforts made by first ascentionists.

To those who would bolt up everything for convenience/cowardice, go and buy the wire brushes, get the old rope, buy a hammer drill, buy bolts, drill bits, crowbars, chains ETC and scrub a line that you will enjoy climbing instead of trying to change routes that are already established. If you have a hard time with a natural anchor maybe sport climbing is more your thing.

Red Dawn,

You’re incoherent, pal. We’re not talking about retro-bolting, only about anchors at the top. Comparing us to chippers is laughable. Take your I’m a real climber attitude and do me a favour: buy a clue. Your 12 years is meaningless in the vast vortex of time that screams your 1994 crowd/sheep mentality.

This thread REALLY needs Otterman, if only to teach Adrian some debating skills.

personally i like routes with natural anchors, wherever they may be.  it keeps me on my toes–gotta save gear for the anchor and helps me keep my anchor building skills up to speed.

retrofitting any established climb is a non-issue, especially in this case. 

vram why don’t you take your time and spend it on some other worthwhile issues like:
banning lycra wearing euros from the crag;
teaching climbers how to use deoderant;
the best way to eat a crag dog; or
banning the use of bolt guns

Red Dawn,

I wrote the last comment at 5am, so I didn’t have time to properly disseminate your excretious profundity. Allow me to do so now.

What kind of climber would complain about anchors at the top? What kind of climber would whine about consistency? Have you really been climbing this long, or do you frequent gyms after hours and crags in the dark? Red Christ, climbers whine about ratings, pro, approach, weather, bugs, friction, style, colour tape, route-setters, reachiness, subjective style required, whether bouldering is real climbing and just about everything and anything else under the sun. So there sparky, your comment is fundamentally high-larious.

I’ll address your next point about adventure. Excuse me? What the goddamned mother of Benicio del Toro are you babbling about? What does adventure have to do with getting down a tiny climb in a crag located in a subdivision? Red Dawn, you’re the kind of person who would be happily chipping away the rock with the rest of them if that were the popular ethic. That is why I called you a sheep. Because you spew this rhetoric about trad and ethics and all this nonsense, clearly without reading the entire thread. We’ve been over this already. There’s nothing ethical or unethical about bolts at the top of the goddamned route. The only issue as I see it is:

1. Preventing TR erosion.

That argument was invalidated by the fact that 90% of the Bluffs has top anchors. So what, exactly, are you blathering about there Red?

Now as for Sarq Astic. I won’t pretend that I don’t know your level of retardation already exceeds the necessity to replyt, but this is for everybody else. I put my name next to the First Ascents for White Bluff in the hope that people would come forward with more information. Nobody did. So, in the words of Snopp Dogg, F*ck it.

HariHari,

What you keep missing (over and over and over and over again) is that it ISN’T about committment and focus. I have probably done climbs that would make your testicles shrivel and withdraw up into your lower intestines. I don’t know. I am not aware of your climbing history. When it comes to climbing trad, I am just fine with natural anchors. I’m talking about one climb in an outdoor gym that I DIDN’T EVEN LEAD. I had to RESCUE my inexperienced partner because there were no anchors at the top. HAD it been my lead, YES I would have built a TR with natural pro.

As for your a,b,c,d comments, this entire thread isn’t about that. It comes down to a simple annoyance. There’s no adventure in the Bluffs. It’s a climbed out, gymed up crag that is almost the ANTI-THESIS of the ethical adventure you people keep spewing like you invented the word. Does the fact that all the trees got cut down for your pure ethics enchance your pleasure? Does the fact that construction on houses is going on as you climb, and you can hear people, cars, and pets at all times while you climb make it adventurous? Does the fact that manufactured stairs and walkways and toilets make you feel like this is an adventure? Puuuuuuuuuuuuuh-lease.

You want adventure? You’re gonna, quite frankly, have to leave the Bluffs.

Tenn, you miss the point too. It’s not about changing the character and committment of the route. All we’re talking about is top anchors. I don’t see what it has to do with the DOA analogy. The ONLY valid point I’ve seen to adding anchors is that it erodes it faster through TR. Oh and, Anders isn’t a fan of em either.

You don’t understand. I wrote this off a long time ago. The only reason I’m arguing now is that I think you guys are goddamned hilarious talking about adventure and committment in reference to this climb. It’s a sweet crack, but Jesus and Allah in a mud wrestling ring, it’s NOT an adventure. Most of the people on this forum wouldn’t climb something that wasn’t already in a guide book. So people like Red Dawn can throw a few bomb proof SLCDs in Penny Lane and that makes it adventurous? LOL. Sometimes I think sport takes MORE balls than trad, especially the long run out sport climbs. The jokers with their 10-4 I.T. jobs and 00 trad rack can place thirteen cams in a span of six feet and THIS takes committment and character.

Laugh. Out. Loud.