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josh phelps
Member
Posts: 33
josh phelps
Post Re: Pallet burning
on: December 7, 2006, 13:05

pallet burning is actually an ancient tradition that has it’s origins with the coast salish tribe. when george vancouver first sailed into our coastal waters and landed near the head waters of howe sound, he unloaded many gifts in order to make peace with the natives. he had to perform this task expediciously as the tides were turning and storms were approaching. instead of delivering the gifts of fine silk, porcelin, gold, myrrh and frankenscence, slowly by hand he fashioned a makeshift crane and tore up some of the ships planking to create large platforms (pallets) with which to put these many gifts on. the system worked but after george vancouver left and drowned off the coast of alaska when he took on water, the natives found little use for the gifts but the pallets were good in that they had a dry fuel source for the winter. thus pallet burning was born.

My e-mail address is invalid and if I don’t change it to a valid address soon my username will be deleted again. -Gripped

sark astiq
Member
Posts: 252
sark astiq
Post Re: Pallet burning
on: December 7, 2006, 17:37

Sh!t dr. send you sound like you’re getting ready to climb a route with Shep Steiner.

9a
Member
Posts: 20
9a
Post Re: Pallet burning
on: December 7, 2006, 19:16

Instead of burning pallets, maybe we could burn meth-heads and hippies? I suspect the meth- heads would burn bright but the dirty hippies may give off some noxious fumes.

Anyone have any experience with this?

colind
Member
Posts: 20
colind
Post Re: Pallet burning
on: December 7, 2006, 20:34

Pallet burning is very common in climbing areas of the American southwestern desert. trees are a pretty rare commodity there, much harder to find than pallets. Fortunately firewood is available almost anywhere you can get water.The gravel pit in bishop is a particularly popular place to burn pallets. Approx 100 pallets per night are burned in this camp. I have personally seen a full pickup load go into a fire in one go, what a waste!

josh phelps
Member
Posts: 33
josh phelps
Post Re: Pallet burning
on: December 7, 2006, 22:58

actually, it’s a little known fact that the word hippy comes from the coast salish word hixoulpi. this was the name they gave to the european explorer/sailors who were in the process of being disciplined during the time their ships cruised the coast and landed in the salish settlements.  these men were seen to be in the process of hixouo, or sitting in a group, smoking, often chained to a nearby tree while the rest of the crew worked. the salish thought them lazy, not helping unload the pallets of gifts.

so i guess yeah, there were dirty hippies at the time…a condition of the time scooped by unoriginal modern rock bands and weed smoking rubes.

My e-mail address is invalid and if I don’t change it to a valid address soon my username will be deleted again. -Gripped

9a
Member
Posts: 20
9a
Post Re: Pallet burning
on: December 7, 2006, 23:21

Were there no dirty hippies at that time?

harihari
Member
Posts: 305
chris
Post Re: Pallet burning
on: December 8, 2006, 13:58

Jargonic bullshit is heavy in the arts cos

a) most people working in the art-criticism industrry have very little new to say– how many times cna youre-interpret Wordsworth, or Tarrantino, or MSN convos– in new ways?

b) most arguments in art-cirt can be understood (and refuted) by a retarded twelve year old; so dressing them up makes them look profounder than they are. 

c) the jargon quoted above translates roughly as we used to think of bad cultural stuff as ONE BIG HUNK of bad stuff; now we think of it as chunks and strings of bad stuff that wrap aroudn each other in weird repetitive ways (i can’t see it; i am doing this from memory)

d) As Noam Chomsky pointed out, in science jargon has a clarifying function (one word means one thing in order to reduce ambiguity, since science experiments need to be repeatable to be valid) while in art, jargon increases ambiguity since if anybody else comes to the same conclusion, you are being less original and mighht not get scarce tenure or the free black turtleneck that comes with being a Theorist

sorry for the rant; i took crit theory in grad school…but i escaped the maze alive.

chris stolz

Watch an 18-pitch free route go up at
http://gumbiesoncrack.blogspot.com

trent
Member
Posts: 170
Trent
Post Re: Pallet burning
on: December 8, 2006, 14:51

Will - can you explain to me why that kind of jargon-heavy, information-poor language proliferates in the arts?  It does in the sciences as well, of course, but at least there it’s discouraged by those who favour lucidity over style.  In the arts, it seems like they can’t say where the cat went without breaking into discourse over feline perambulation.

T out.

trent
Member
Posts: 170
Trent
Post Re: Pallet burning
on: December 9, 2006, 01:02

Will,

Having published more than a few papers in scientific journals, and having dedicated a fair bit of thought over the last decade to clarity in writing in the sciences, I would suggest that the writing sample you’ve provided is simply poor writing - it’s jargon-heavy, overly wordy, and, given the amount of text, information-poor.

I certainly can’t speak for the arts, but in science the simplest writing is often the best.  Occasionally (or even often, in some fields), the use of jargon is unavoidable.  Montane, for example, doesn’t exactly mean mountainous in geology, and proglacial lacustrine sediment is unavoidable.  However, I could do without constitute an equivocal proxy… or is consistent with regional evidence..  These are dense (to borrow a term Presentational Image ) phrases used when simple phrases constructed from simple words would be both easier to understand and aesthetic.

If the science (or philosophy, or history) is theoretically difficult, why do so many writers feel the need to bury their ideas in rhetoric and multi-syllabic words?  Don’t scientists (and philosophers, and historians) want to be understood?

I’d love to go on at length, but I have to do some work sometime this weekend…  And weffriddles haven’t been any help.  But this issue is a bit of a debate in the sciences (and elsewhere) - I’ll tell you sometime about the ‘Fog Index’ (a simple metric used to determine how clear writing is), but you may find the idea offensive…

good luck with exams!

Trent.

dr. send
Member
Posts: 185
willko
Post Re: Pallet burning
on: December 9, 2006, 17:40

That’s a common misconception, Trent, and one that I frankly find quite offensive. That quote from Judith Butler (yes, I stole it from Judith Butler and no, there is no such thing as dense theory or English 466) may indeed be jargon-heavy, but what makes you think it’s information-poor?

Take this excerpt from a geology paper as an example:

As is the case with detrital forefield wood, intervals of
clastic-rich, proglacial lacustrine sediment, taken in isolation,
constitute an equivocal proxy for glacial activity. For
example, sediments can be delivered episodically to
montane lake systems during non-glacial events such as
large floods (Menounos et al., 2005a). But a glacial origin is
suggested if the clastic interval coincides with tightly
constrained ages on detrital forefield wood (Menounos et
al., 2004), or is consistent with regional evidence.

I could easily say that geologists can’t talk about mountains without breaking into discourse about equivocal proxies for glacial activity, but would that be a fair characterization of geologists or would it belie my ignorance of geological jargon, and indeed, geology itself?

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