My two cents:

I believe Sonnie had no right to remove those bolts. If he wants to do the route on gear .. thats awesome and a great accomplishment, for him. Chopping the bolts is like saying Now everyone must climb it the way I climbed it.  Why couldn’t Sonnie do it on gear and just leave the bolts? The debate would be different if the bolts weren’t there to begin with, or if the route was an obvious traditional line but neither of these were the case here. More credit should go to the person who put in the time and effort (and money) to equip the line in the first place. Why does it make a difference whether that person was able to do it free or not?

In fact, almost all the routes at the back of the lake can be done on gear. Can I go chop the bolts from wicked gravity? I believe wicked gravity was originally done on gear, does that give me justification?

While Sonnie’s ascent is a great accomplishment (for him) it adds nothing to the area.

Hey Knut,

Headpointing a route is not a loftier goal than redpointing a sport climb.

Scroll up and read my previous post. Epecially the last few lines with the quote from the British climber Adrian Berry concerning haedpointing (see below).

“Getting to the top is everything. How you do it is nothing”.

Sure does not sound like a proud way of climbing to me.

Jenny, I read your long and thoughtful post. I agree with some of it, and disagree with other parts. Thanks for taking the time to put those thoughts together.

Our basic difference on this I think is that I see it (a run-out, naturally protected route) as a much more involved ascent - which requires more from the climber both mentally and physically then if it had been bolted. You see it as a lesser ascent, a mere top-rope rehersal. Different views on the same piece of rock.

The difference is summed up by your statement: Headpoint routes are simply elaborate gymnastic routines attempted only when the climber is positive they can execute the line without falling.

The amount of focus and commitment in a strong headpointed route (I’m not talking E10 - I’m talking about whatever your personal limit is) is a very differnent game than simply a gymnastic routine.

K

They guy climbs a FA and does it on gear and its hard..sounds proud to me

most of you cant even dream about the route but lose your mind over it.

Then he goes to BC climbs a 5.10 alpine climb that was done years ago, and adds a bolt and no one says a thing..something is not right with you people

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The problem with having strong inflexible beliefs is that eventually you will act in contrast to those very same concepts.  I would argue that the actions of noteworthy individuals are paramount.  They create consensuses which others use to justify their own actions.  To remove the possibility of bolts on a climb is to suggest that this piece of stone should forever be climbed in the manner of the first ascent.  Bolted climbs can always be climbed using natural protection (or soloed for that matter) with no impact on the greater climbing community.  As example I site < ?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags />Australia.  For some climbs two grades are listed in the guild book.  One for natural protection.  One for fixed protection.  This takes into account the obvious difference in the overall objective difficulty.< ?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice />

I find it ironic that the same individuals that who espouse freedom, respect, nobility and a greater vision are so closed minded in their approach.  This mind set is frighteningly similar to the radical Christian right held so valiantly by our friends to the south.  Perhaps this is why Batso(ask someone old) coined the term Valley Christians so appropriately. 

I don’t believe for a second these individuals recognized the impact they’ve had on their environment in this electronic age.  Climbing is and always will be absolutely inconsequential.  The strong feels associated with this issue stem from feelings of being dictated too by a second party.  Climbers are generally independent by nature.  Perhaps the answer as in the rest of the world is Live and Let Live.  That is, feel free to gamble your existence on any climb you whish.  Just let the rest of us act safe and cowardly.

P.S.  Fantastic accomplishment.  Peter Croft climbed Van Belladrome in the eighties on natural gear.  However he left the bolts for the rest of the mortals to use.  Perhaps this action put an explanation mark on an already mythical career.