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Author	Topic: OAC bolts TheJoke

realtree

Member
Posts: 9

Re: Mad Bolters vs Tradition
on: December 15, 2007, 13:09

And still no word from the retrobolter…

dave

Member
Posts: 13

Re: OAC Bolting War at Bon Echo
on: December 18, 2007, 00:10

Hi Adam

I appreciate that you’re interested in doing real access work, but as the numerous posts on this site and the silence of those who really bolted the route show, you’re backing the wrong horse on this one.

trad daddy

Member
Posts: 37

Re: OAC Bolting War at Bon Echo
on: December 18, 2007, 11:20

Adam - you wrote:

‘The work done on The Joke falls under a different category. The individuals who had done the work felt that the fixed gear on the routes had become dangerously loose and needed to be replaced with updated fixed gear; new bolts. I have not climbed the route before and therefore I cannot comment whether or not there are available gear placements where there are now bolts. I am only able to comment on the information which is provided to me.’

Therein lies the problem. You have not climbed the route before. Nor have many folks on this board. I know I sound like a crusty old bastard, but it is only because I care, not just for the integrity of my former climbing experience on the route (did I mention that there is gear to be had on this climb?), but for those who have not yet had the opportunity to climb this great line and for the generations to come. I would like my kids to have the same opportunities and choices that I had and not to have them taken away by some cowards who deemed it unsafe for all. You (as a representative of the OAC - and presumably climbers in Ontario) are taking the word of ‘individuals’ who took this action based on their own preconceived notions of what was right for the route and the greater climbing community as a whole. There was no consultation with anyone in the climbing community outside of this group of ‘individuals’.
As mentioned by Knut and acknowledged by yourself, this board is a great tool, possibly the best tool that we as a Canadian climbing community have to voice opinion, share information and possibly to gain concensus on this and a myriad of other issues that pertain to us as a group…

I am obviously upset about this issue and have spit some venom in previous posts. While I am adament on seeing the intergrity of this great and historic line restored and will continue to take issue with the inappropriate actions that have taken place, I would like to also acknowledge your efforts and those of the OAC in working to help maintain climbing access in ON. I barely have enough time in my day to check this BB and spew some of my BS, let alone help out with access issues …

keep on jammin’

mfb

Member
Posts: 21

Re: Mad Bolters vs Tradition
on: December 18, 2007, 12:19

Jon,

Clearly this issue has inspired some great debate on whether or not the bolts added were appropriate. But PLEASE do not use this as an excuse to add more bolts to existing/new lines. The bolts which were added were done with the permission of the park. They do not look kindly upon the addition of bolts without their consent and following that same logic, any removal of bolts would require their consent as well.

I have heard numerous people’s opinions regarding the work done on The Joke as well as the opinions of those on this board. We (the OAC) do not have a formal meeting scheduled until the New Year and at that point I will bring this matter up for discussion. I am not promising some immediate answer as we do not have the authority to make one.

While I find BB’s a great place to make your opinions heard, I encourage anyone who has any questions regarding access in Ontario to contact us directly through the OAC website. We are trying not to make a habit of responding to people’s access issues through a BB.

Adam Connor

Co-Chair Ontario Access Coalition

http://www.ontarioaccesscoalition.com

dave

Member
Posts: 13

OAC Bolting War at Bon Echo
on: December 18, 2007, 12:21

Hi Adam

It is frightening to think the OAC has given itself a mandate to make necky trad climbs more accessible. There are few climbers who will support your attempt to expand your real access mandate if that is so. Saying that it isn’t so is not going to fly unless you undo some of your actions that show that it is. It looks like the OAC hasn’t been given this mandate by the climbing community, but instead has a mandate to use access-babble to paper-over the indiscretions of the Toronto Section, which comprises fewer climbers than the average gym sees on a busy saturday. The bolting war at Bon Echo was started by the OAC, not by climbers who wanted the bolt free tradition of Ontario’s most famous trad line preserved.

mfb

Member
Posts: 21

Re: OAC Bolting War at Bon Echo
on: December 18, 2007, 13:26

Dave,

Your statement that we have given ourselves a mandate to make high-risk trad routes more accessible is incorrect. Ever since the OAC was started up (born out of the access group which was part of the ACC - Toronto) our projects have all been about maintaining access at certain crags while attempting to re-open others. This is the first year where we have made an attempt at addressing the need to upgrade the bolts at certain areas. Halton is one example where we have replaced many old bolts with new ones. All of the routes were existing sport routes.

The work done on The Joke falls under a different category. The individuals who had done the work felt that the fixed gear on the routes had become dangerously loose and needed to be replaced with updated fixed gear; new bolts. I have not climbed the route before and therefore I cannot comment whether or not there are available gear placements where there are now bolts. I am only able to comment on the information which is provided to me.

I do not consider the OAC to be some ethics clean-up crew for the ACC. We are a group of individuals who are working together to ensure that access to all existing climbing crags, AND at newly developed craps is maintained. We are not mandated by anyone to do any of the work we do. Instead we see the need for an organized group, speaking on behalf of all climbers, to work with land managers in maintaining access to the crag for climbers while satisfying the requirements of a land manager (legal, environmental, etc). It is unfortunate that some see our group in a negative light. We do our best to satisfy the needs of all parties but as with any situation, there will always be some parties who are not happy with the end result.

Knut,

I agree that there are many parties on this BB who have contributed great points to many discussions (including this one). My comments regarding responding to access issues through the BB are not saying I/we won’t reply to any further posts. It is more to encourage anyone who wishes to speak further about access to contact us directly as well. I will gladly reply to posts where a response warranted. The Gripped BB has been and will continue to be a great place to voice your opinion and the OAC will always be availabe to provide a response to access questions which are posted here.

I’ll finish my piece by reiterating the point that we are not solely representing the needs of the ACC. We are attempting to address the needs of all climbers who want to see access maintained at the crags they climb at in Ontario.

Adam Connor

Co-Chair Ontario Access Coalition

http://www.ontarioaccesscoalition.com

knut rokne

Member
Posts: 69

Re: Mad Bolters vs Tradition
on: December 18, 2007, 21:51

Adam,

We are trying not to make a habit of responding to people’s access issues through a BB.

While you might not want to make a habit of it, for better or worse, with its warts and wrinkles, the Gripped BB is an important place for discussions on Canadian climbing.

While we have been entertained by idiots and ego-maniacs here, there have also been some topical and valuable discusisons regarding routes, bolts, comps, ethics, gear and history.

The OAC, by posting here with a well-thought out rationale for their actions, will contribute to the national discourse and continued discussion and growth of Canadian climbing.

Don’t avoid this BB for the idiots, but post here for the rest who read with an open mind.

david james

Member
Posts: 5

Re: OAC Bolting War at Bon Echo
on: December 19, 2007, 05:46

Adam,

I have to agree with Dave, I think you’re backing the wrong horse. If you really feel it was popular opinion to bolt The Joke then you are kidding yourself. You feel you are acting on behalf of the climbing community by working with park services to protect climbing areas. How do you think you look in the eyes of the park when your actions spark such a debate. Don’t you think they look on these bb’s to find out what’s going on within the community. You should know that bolting can be a cotroversial topic at the best of times but to throw a couple of bolts into an old classic -what were you thinking?

trad daddy

Member
Posts: 37

Re: Mad Bolters vs Tradition
on: December 29, 2007, 19:28

Pretty weak that there’s no word from the bolter…

Got invited up to Kawartha cottage country for new years eve. It’s actually not too far from Bon Echo. I was planning on chopping those bolts this spring - but as I will be in the area and the weather is forecast to be mild, I may take the afternoon of New Years Day to go out and clean up the Joke for the upcoming climbing season.
As much as I am against the bastardization and taming of the Joke with the addition of these bolts, I plan only on removing those that have been placed as protection bolts on the pitches themselves (with the exception of the one placed adjacent to the cedar). While I feel that the anchor bolts placed at the belay stations take away from the overall experience and spirit of the climb (this same thing happened to Rock On in Squamish when a local guide wanted to make guiding the route easier by sinking in bolts at the belays - also weak…). I don’t at this point plan on removing the anchor bolts that were put in at the belays; despite the fact that bolts don’t really belong on such a classic line…

Any thoughts …

keep on jammin’

buddysnack

Member
Posts: 34

Re: Mad Bolters vs Tradition
on: December 30, 2007, 03:51

Hey TD,

I meant no harm, I was just having a little fun in my writing. Sounds like you have earned the right to do the inevitable. I just wanted to make sure you were motivated for the right reasons.

And me…ok, so sometimes I am a bit righteous. But usually it’s because I am right.

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