Two words:

Zone Format

NOOOOOOO ZONEEEEEEE

In my un-professional opinion.

After further consideration and talks with various individuals about this situation it is still apparent that there is a need for changes and additions to the current regulations.

The first of my original suggestions may not be the best solutions for this issue.  As the real issue was that the points-per-hold were not made available, in any way, to the competitor.  In effect even though the competitor looked at the scores following the competition there was still no way for him/her to verify his/her results, and was left to trust that the judges had not made a mistake.  It was indicated above that in National competitions the climbers verify their score with the judge following the conclusion of their attempt.  Why is this not the case down to the local level?  This would provide for an immediate appeal should a discrepency be discovered.  And, the route maps showing points-per-hold should be made available to the competitors at the same time as the official results are posted, this way climbers can verify if any mistakes have been made.

The 15-minute timeline was put into place for international level competitions where the athletes have coaches that watch and record ALL of the competitors to make sure no mistakes are made.  At an Open National level I don’t know of a single competitor that retains a coach.  And because the competitor can not watch all of the other athletes attempts they have no way of knowing before hand who should win.  We only have one judge per problem, who is not a professional, typically only being trained the morning of the competition, and there is no video system in place as in International competitions.  Because of this we can not hold ourselves to the same rules as we do not meet the professional standards of those competitions.  As such, we must make allowances when we make mistakes until a system is in place that is infallible.

Finally, it has been presented to me multiple times that a placing and ranking can not be changed after the fact.  The truth is that they CAN be changed and are on a regular basis.  You may ask how?  Take into consideration illegal doping.  In the case that an athlete is caught doping their placing is stripped from them and awarded to the athlete that truly earned it.  This happens at Olympic levels competition, and has happened in World Cup Climbing competitions as well.  So, it shows that rankings and placings CAN and WILL be changed if the evidence is there, even seven years after and Olympic competition (Marion Jones’ recent doping admission and subsequent stripping of her medals).  This being the case is it not right that a climber, in a local competition, a day later, is awarded their true placing and ranking?

And Mr. Doyle, yes it is ONLY a local competition, but say the current placing difference equates to an 6 point difference in the rankings.  Should the difference be less than 6 points between the 10th ranked and 11th ranked competitors when it comes to selection of the National Team, it does have a huge impact on the competitor as they will not be rightfully selected based on their true achievement.

And I will add, with respect to the rules being posted on the TDB website, as a competitor I should not have to search for the rules in a Judges Handbook.  I am not, and will not be a judge for a very long time unless some circumstance leads to my being unable to climb competitively.  As such I have no business looking in the Judges Handbook (which by the way is the 2006/07 version) for the rules.  If you consult the IFSC website there is a direct link to Rules on the homepage.  And in a sport where ALL pertinent rules are supposed to be discussed in the rules meeting, and have been as long as I’ve been competing, how is such an important one missed, it was not announced at this competition, and the majority of the competitors were unaware of it.  I will also point out that there was no TDB Rulebook made available at the competition, this should also be a requirement of the organization and then there is truely no excuse for not knowing the rules.  As for who’s responsibility it is?  It is both the organization and the climbers responsibility to make sure the rules are known, if they are not CLEARLY provided how can they be expected to be known?

Well I’m tired of writing today but I’m glad most of you are showing support and being serious about it.

D

Correct on the fact that was only a local event. If we have to change something, I believe is in the competition format, logistic and procedure standard. Because logically we do the local event as a practice for Regional or National and upon qualification perhaps International.

I don’t think the wheel has to be reinvent. Competitors must know their rigths, rules are available on the CEC and the Tour de Bloc website. And these rules are a derivate of the IFSC rules. Thanks K for pointing out the link.

The head judge should never being left out on the appeal committee… otherwise why do we give an individual the responsibility of being a head judge. Mike is rigth, it need only the head judge and the route judge to deal with an appeal.

The idea of breaking down results and making it available to everyone is excellent. In any other sport they have a score board, why not climbing. Digital projector is accessible, lets use it even if it is a local event. This will help and educate spectators to understand what is going on the current ranking, and this help competitors to know rigth away their standing after they finished climbing (competitor can only view the score board when they have done their round).

Yes the Zone format is very effective for finals or qualification. I don’t have any problem with a point per hold for qualification.

I feel sorry for the competitor that have to suffer the injustice, but now he or she knows about the 15 minutes appeal rule. It is part of the learning curve!

D

ps: Oh yeah, I believe there is a on the table for each appeal. If you win your appeal you get your money back, if not… just too bad! This is how it work on the Junior circuit!

It was indicated above that in National competitions the climbers verify their score with the judge following the conclusion of their attempt. Why is this not the case down to the local level? This would provide for an immediate appeal should a discrepency be discovered. And, the route maps showing points-per-hold should be made available to the competitors at the same time as the official results are posted, this way climbers can verify if any mistakes have been made.

Well said Danimal.  This would be very easy to implement in any competition, and would greatly decrease chances for error I would think.

I also believe that the results DEFINITELY should be fixed, if an error was not committed by the climber.

Andrew

ps.  excellent post HANKY.