Forum

Gripped » Gripped Forums » Rock » Was Warren Harding Right?

Pages: [1] 2 3
Presentational Image Author Topic: Was Warren Harding Right?
frimer
Member
Posts: 17
frimer
Post Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 17, 2008, 07:28

Warren Harding once claimed that Climbing is just another self centered, assholish thing to do. Buildering.net ran a poll to see if climbers agreed. Half did. The buildering.net host stated that indeed Warren had been right: In the end, I’m going to have to trust the opinion of the source here. Mr. Warren Harding was a climbing legend. He made this little remark with over 70 years of life experience behind him. I can’t picture someone looking back on their life and wishing they’d have climbed more. Plus, Warren was an asshole. So I’ve heard. Who better to comment on the activities of assholes? My favorite childhood retort comes to mind …oh yeah? Takes one to know one.

Don’t we feel great about ourselves now?

A few years ago, after climbing the route that made Warren Harding famous (the Nose on El Cap), I felt as though I was finally starting to get this climbing thing right. And then I learned about Warren’s quote and wondered about just how right I wanted to get this, and what right even means in the first place when it comes to being a climber? Was I striving to become the perfect asshole? Does climbing have to be just another form of narcissism? Aren’t there any good people out there that also climb? For me, the connection between being self-centred and climbing is not easily broken. That’s the bad news, I’m afraid.

The good news is that I’ve done the hard work. But I can’t do this thing on my own. Here’s an opportunity to use climbing for some purpose beyond what Warren was talking about. It’s happening between April 19 and 27, and goes from Whistler to Vancouver (via the Grand Wall on the Chief). http://www.skiandbikefordarfur.blogspot.com

True assholes need not apply. Looking forward to seeing the rest of your there.

doyle
Member
Posts: 16
doyle
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 17, 2008, 15:48

I think this is great, a good cause and you have written a great intro and a reason why to do it.

However after reading the web site I noticed you or the organization has decided to include a critical mass bike ride. I do not support critical mass, they have been confrontational in Vancouver, they have gone against the original idea of the critical mass bike rides and they do nothing but anger motorist, including those in hybrids and on transit.

its unfortunant that the final leg of your awesome journey is being held by a group with alterior motives and although good, none has been done by them in this city.

I think most have forgotten the mission statement of CM

Some CM riders try to tie up traffic as much as possible and be otherwise confrontational with motorists. Such riders are missing the point about Critical Mass. CM is a celebration of cycling, not a war against motorists. CM is about asserting our right to the road, not denying others their right to the road. Those who want to play juvenile games are encouraged to stay at home instead.

 

aaron
Member
Posts: 15
Aaron
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 18, 2008, 04:06

So you want to be involved in an adventure race?  That’s cool.  So you want to be involved in an adventure race and think that by incorporating some worthy cause into your race, that it some how negates your selfish desire to be apart of that race? 

 Hmmmmm, questionable. 

If what you’re suggesting is legitimate, I’ll be sure to remember to use it the next time I chose to do something selfish.

For now on, the next time I’m late for dinner I’ll tell my wife I was late climbing so I could raise awareness for the protection of baby whales.

Or, I’ll explain to people that I’m driving my SUV to raise awareness against illiteracy in our native communities.

Or when I go ski boating with my buddies, we’ll explain that we’re doing to raise awareness for the protection of endangered species.

The best part is we get to feel better about our selves, and “raising awareness” is free. But what do I know, I’m an asshole.

Always looking for new people to climb with. Check out my profile on rockclimbing.com User name. Slavetogravity. Peace.

stone_mason
Member
Posts: 132
stone_mason
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 18, 2008, 06:56

Well as for being an asshole…..

I do it because I love adventure. Hence I enjoy long routes far more than boulder problems. It brings me back to my youth, running through blackberry bushes in Port Coquitlam looking for hiding spots.

Guess some enjoy the inflated ego of there accomplishments but I speak for myself when I say I actually enjoy climbing.

————————————
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature’s peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop away from you like the leaves of Autumn.”

John Muir

frimer
Member
Posts: 17
frimer
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 18, 2008, 18:30

With regards to the critical mass, the devil is in the details. Leg 9, the final leg of our adventure relay, goes from Deep Cove to downtown Vancouver on cycle. And hopefully we will have a good showing. But our intent is by no means to interfere with traffic. Cyclists on our relay will be instructed to abide by the law, which means no corking, and sidewalks on the Lions Gate and Stanley Park causeway. Whether our cycle still qualifies as a critical mass, I’m not sure. Either way, it will be entirely legal. And if individuals show up that choose to cork, they may be met and dealt with directly by police. Sorry if the wrong message came across.

josh phelps
Member
Posts: 33
josh phelps
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 18, 2008, 21:04

frimer
by your logic, any recreational activity - whether it bowling, climbing or going for a walk in the park…could be considered a selfish activity which would attain that lofty standard of asshole.

likewise any distraction, ( a hockey game, watching seinfeld, or tugging on yourself)… if it was more fun, more costly or more adventuresome that anything you version 2 could reproduce, it seems that you, frimer, would place it under the heading of selfish asshole.

i don’t think we have to make a cause out of everything we enjoy. and there’s no bloody way you can defend your stance without being a hypocrite. the second you actual enjoy something that has no relevance to the third world, something that can only be seen as contributing to personal benefit and enjoyment, we can all cry foul.

yes, we can just enjoy something for the sake of enjoying it.

likewise you version 2 has his adventures and distractions as well. playing soccer in the street, stick ball, and dodging bullets. i would sure hope, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander and that me version 2 would be raising money over his way to send over here to me version 1 so i can get that new rope I need.

My e-mail address is invalid and if I don’t change it to a valid address soon my username will be deleted again. -Gripped

frimer
Member
Posts: 17
frimer
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 18, 2008, 21:21

I feel no need to respond to the embarrassing comments of josh phelps. I’m confident that Gripped readership is sufficiently embarrassed on his behalf. My embarrassment stems from the fact that I identify (to some degree) with the climbing community, and to hear such twisted, callous nonsense come from within my community causes me sadness and disappointment. We, the climbing community, are best to not be distracted by such garble, and remain focused on a compassionate reality.

I will respond to the sensible challenge of Aaron, however. First, a minor clarification. The Outdoor Adventure Relay is a community-wide, cooperative, non-competitive event, not a race. Just a clarification. Aaron raises a good point about how we can justify just about anything under the banner of heaven (so to speak) to a self-serving end. That’s absolutely possible, I agree. Aaron, your point is well-taken. Integrity must remain the true litmus test here.

Let’s put it this way. I am dedicating 3 months of my life to the organization of this event. Why? First off, I will likely not go on any part of it: I will be on the outside, organizing people, media, tents, food, permits, rentals, speakers. Second, this relay is insignificant in the sense that it covers known, traveled, and moderate terrain. For those that know my track record, I have over a dozen big first ascents to my credit, including on peaks like Mt. Logan, Siula Grande, and Trango II. The purpose of the Outdoor Adventure Relay is not for me to get another tick, it’s to draw a connection for voters, consumers, and politicians—how our everyday habits represent complicity to severe human rights violations in Darfur. The point of linking these 9 legs is not to simply do something outside and claim that it’s for some higher purpose. The point is to have our own mini-Olympics, to draw the connection between our Olympics in 2010 to the Summer Olympics in Beijing and in turn the connection between China and its support of genocide in Sudan. The 9-day relay lead-up will (hopefully) cause the media to finally bat an eye to Darfur, and get its head out the toilet of Britney Spears. The media will hopefully be at the rally downtown Vancouver on April 27th to hear about how Canada promised plenty and delivered little to Darfur. They will also hear about how what ultimately is preventing countries like our own from mobilizing itself to take action are not a lack of good judgment, but an overwhelming amount of distractions with insignificant concerns in the greater scheme of things.

frimer
Member
Posts: 17
frimer
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 18, 2008, 23:45

In response to:
I do it because I love adventure. Hence I enjoy long routes far more than boulder problems. It brings me back to my youth, running through blackberry bushes in Port Coquitlam looking for hiding spots.

Now stop and think for a moment about yourself not as someone from Port Coquitlam, or from BC, or from Canada. Think of yourself as someone from planet Earth. Now think about how fortunate you version 1 were to be born into such affluence, and think about what life would be like if you just happened to be born as you version 2 in Darfur or some other place where human rights are under threat. Now, in your mind, gather you version 1 and you version 2 together and have a little chat. What does you version 2 have to say about climbing long route after long route simply for the sake of unending enjoyment? Does you version 2 have any requests for you version 1?

I think that the above challenge cuts to the heart of what Warren Harding was after. Boulder? Trad? Long routes? Mountains? on Skis? with a dress on? Upside down? Heal spurs? No bolts? These are all birds of a feather… Let’s not kid ourselves about how important they are in the greater scheme of things.

josh phelps
Member
Posts: 33
josh phelps
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 19, 2008, 07:47

frimer
yay, I get to be the asshole!

but you know, i do suppose it could be noble what you’re doing here.
i’m not a big fan of focus groups though. who’s to say one’s better than the other. and by rationalizing everything focus groups typically come up with the wrong decision. (but that’s my own little rant.)
what might help your cause is perhaps letting someone else do the recruitment though…someone who’s ego isn’t quite so big. (Hey, look at me I’m dedicating 3 months of my life to this!)

but closer to home, meaning this thread, do not try to nab our attention with your well-versed Harding discourse then pull the old bait and switch on us.
That happened to me with another guy…turned out to be Amway.

AND do not tell us, as per your first post that our adventure activities are selfish, that we should participate in your race in order to (basically) shorten our time in pergatory
….then…THEN… promptly turn around and proudly boast of your accomplishments on Logan, Trango and your dozens of big first ascents.

perhaps having my head in Britney spears toilet isn’t the problem here….

i am starting to believe this is possibly another tick for you. and if you read my post properly and ignored my twisted sense of humor you would see that i did basically say the same thing as aaron.

My e-mail address is invalid and if I don’t change it to a valid address soon my username will be deleted again. -Gripped

anders i. ourom
Member
Posts: 58
anders i. ourom
Post Re:
on: March 20, 2008, 00:19

Sir Edmund Hillary certainly thought that we ought to try to help others - as climbers, as citizens of developed countries, and as human beings. He need not have put decades into his humanitarian work, helping the Sherpas of Nepal and others. He more than repaid any moral debt he and even the mountaineering community owed to the Sherpas for all their work and sacrifice. He personally did fairly well from his fame. But he certainly helped others, and believed it important that we try to do so.

We can’t solve all the world’s problems, and we can’t all become self-sacrificing ascetics, or even just ordinary do-gooders. Nor do most of us have the fame of Sir Ed. But we do have to remember how fortunate we are, that the world has large problems, and that it is fundamental to our national character, if not our genetic makeup, to try to help others. Even if it may not help, or at least not in the way we hope it will.

I too sometimes doubt the motives of climbing-related fundraisers and promotions. Even the Franciscans have overhead, but sometimes I wonder how effective the Climb X name-brand peak for Y disease type events really are. It’s even harder to measure if the motive is in part just to raise awareness. My simple rule of thumb is to ask myself whether the people involved would be doing what they’re doing anyway, regardless of the fundraising or promotion angle.

The world is undoubtedly a complicated and challenging place, and making any real change can seem an insuperable challenge. But challenges are nothing new to climbers.

Jeremy and friends are trying to raise awareness of the deficiencies of Canadian foreign policy, particularly with respect to Darfur and the Sudan, but also the People’s Republic of China. (Canadian foreign policy is, as with most countries, largely based on the interests of the government, not ideals - whatever the rhetoric.) They’re also trying to raise awareness if not money for helping the victims of what is going in Darfur. Good for them - I hope the event goes well. Even bearing in mind that a main tenet of current Canadian policy is to avoid offending the Chinese, or the Americans, and it will be difficult to get that to change. We do live in a democracy, though, and if enough people show their concern, it may help cause change. Finally, they’re trying to educate and involve the climbing community.

I strongly believe the climbing community (and it is a community) needs to mature. Our behaviour is often that of adolescent males. Events like this can help with that. If we start thinking of climbing as a privilege, not a right, that’s a good start.

The recent events in Tibet, and the situation there, make this all the more important.

Better to light one candle, than curse the darkness.

Pages: [1] 2 3

Guest  

Show or hide header

Welcome Guest, posting in this forum requires an account.

If you already have one you can login below. Otherwise, you can register for free.





Please leave these two fields as-is: