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stone_mason
Member
Posts: 132
stone_mason
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 23, 2008, 18:07

in response.

 

Yes you are right I am privileged. That being said I don’t come from a wealthy family and worked VERY hard to get where I am (which isn’t much in today’s western standards). As for this very reason I do a TON of volunteerism, since I was 21yrs of age. Perhaps much more or less than some of you, the point being I devote some of my time, energy and skills to make life more enjoyable for people I don’t even know, have met or will most likely ever see again.

I think if everyone found the time to volunteer there energy we would not have the problems in the world as we do. Darfur and all (similar ethical conflicts ) is absolutely appalling and honestly shows how disgusting the human race can be. People in power, politicians and CEO’s have yet to step up to the challenge and sit by and let it all unfold. The character these people display is about as low as a piece of crusty bird poo stuck to my windshield. Seriously one day historians will look back and view these people as cowards, thieves and liars. That is how they may be remembered till the end of mankind. Climbing keeps me closer to nature.

————————————
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature’s peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop away from you like the leaves of Autumn.”

John Muir

frimer
Member
Posts: 17
frimer
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 23, 2008, 18:20

Josh Phelps, I hate to be the one to break it to you but recreation, tv, and music are all—by nature—self-centred, self-stimulating activities. That is not to say that they cannot be USED for community purposes. But by nature, yes they are. What on earth gave you any other idea? Warren Harding’s quote was in response to being asked if climbing was any different from other sports or recreational activities, and his response was that no, climbing is the same. If you disagree, please tell me how climbing, tv, and/or music inherently are oriented beyond the self.

Regarding the bait and switch technique. I agree that there was a shift in my proposal but I think of it in different terms. The beginning part of the proposal was to put to words something that many people intuit (you notwithstanding; that climbing is inherently self-centered) and then propose a way for people to mitigate the selfish nature of their sport (and mine; I was away, selfishly climbing this weekend) with a broadminded concern of the global community. I was giving the justification of going to all this effort in the first place. If you feel guilt, that’s because of something inside of you—not something I wrote. If you don’t feel guilt, it’s the same thing. I am not responsible for any guilt that anyone else feels. I am merely expressing my opinion and inviting those that resonate with it to join me.

I take neither fault for your guilt nor credit for your prosocial action, should you choose to engage it.

josh phelps
Member
Posts: 33
josh phelps
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 24, 2008, 08:38

frimer
i do disagree with you: i do not think all climbing is self serving.
like i said, YOU are proof that not all climbing is self serving - by being a climber and also organizing this race. you are the proof.
another example?  the fact that someone took the time to create the burgers and fries route, in a way, proves that not all climbing is self serving. for some it’s a contribution.
beyond that…i suppose if you create a lasting bond that betters both you and your rope partner, while the two of you are out climbing, perhaps there’s more going on than just self-serving climbing. i’m sure much of this could also happen with most any recreational activity as well.

but that’s not my main point.

my angst lies in your initial post where you pointed your finger at us and stated that climbers are participating in a selfish activity when we climb and if we don’t want to be selfish assholes we would participate in your race.

that’s how i read it anyways.

so i pointed the finger back at you and stated: if you call climbing selfish, then you have to call all recreational activities selfish. activities you’ve participated in. by your definition you’re an asshole as much as we are.

so sure, perhaps guilting was the wrong word to describe your initial post. perhaps not.
seems your post did smack of something along those lines though: perhaps a better description may be: playing god - by hoisting yourself up as the one who gets to set the criteria (in this situation) for asshole.

basically i’m saying, perhaps you shouldn’t call people ’selfish assholes’ when you don’t even know them.
it’s presumptuous and arrogant. and you have little idea, if any, of who the lurkers on this forum are. we, like you, could be similarly engaged in global awareness issues.
so do not hop on this forum and call us assholes if we don’t participate in yours.

My e-mail address is invalid and if I don’t change it to a valid address soon my username will be deleted again. -Gripped

frimer
Member
Posts: 17
frimer
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 27, 2008, 11:38

Josh,
By me quoting Warren Harding about climbing being inherently selfcentred and assholish, and even by quoting building.net’s vetting of this statement, heck… even by me saying that climbing is all that… I did not call you or anyone an asshole or selfcentered. Placing a global trait on a person is a *categorically* different action than stating that an act has that trait attached to it. Climbing is a simple thing (that is, it means going up rock or ice or whatever). Thus, it is easily categorized. Persons are not simple things. They do many activities, for a variety of different purposes, which have many different impacts.

As you pointed out (repeating what I’ve been saying all along), climbing *can* be more than what Warren Harding said. And no, you don’t have to get involved with my event for it to be so. Show the friend how to do a boulder problem, clean up a trail, etc. Some people are looking for something less in-house than that, which is where my event may come in. Back to my main point. I did not, at any time, or in any way, call you or me or anyone on the Gripped website, or anyone an asshole or infer that they are selfish. People are not climbing. So careful about what accusations you say I made.

harihari
Member
Posts: 305
chris
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: March 28, 2008, 23:01

Rock climbing is so God-damned stupid.  All I ever wanted was to get up my route, and let another fellow get up his. 

As I hammered in the last bolt and staggered over the rim, it was not at all clear to me who was the conqueror and who was the conquered. I do recall that El Cap seemed to be in much better condition than I was.    — Warren Harding

Good on you for organising this, Jeremy.

 

chris stolz

Watch an 18-pitch free route go up at
http://gumbiesoncrack.blogspot.com

frimer
Member
Posts: 17
frimer
Post Re: Was Warren Harding Right?
on: April 6, 2008, 03:05

The Outdoor Adventure Relay is less than 2 weeks away. Sign up has been slow so far, with just 20 people signed up… which means as few as 1 person for some of the legs. I know that life is busy but this is really important… Please make time if you can to get involved. I sense that many more people are interested and intending to go on the relay, but haven’t made the commitment yet. Any help you can offer in helping spread the word and encouraging participation would be outstanding. At the rally, we have confirmed bands such as Tambura Rasa (http://www.tamburarasa.com/) and Jarimba (African drumming; http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=26423011)… as well as speakers including Senator Mobina Jaffer (fmr Canadian Special Envoy to Darfur), MPs Hedy Fry and Libby Davies, Clive Ansley (International Human Rights Attorney), Devin Tucker, MD (worked in Darfur/Chad). We just formed a coalition with Canada Tibet Committee to double our impact… and the media is starting to pay attention to the event. Lots of excitement. Now we just need participants!

Remember that sign-up is free. Here’s the link
http://skiandbikefordarfur.blogspot.com/2008/02/sign-up-for-relay.html

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