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anders i. ourom
Member
Posts: 58
anders i. ourom
Post Re: Garabaldi on the mountain (survey)
on: May 17, 2008, 12:54

I thought it might be useful to add some other information and perspectives on this. Especially for the many not familiar with Squamish. My apologies for the length.

The mountain is spelled Mount Garibaldi (named for the Italian patriot), and is in Garibaldi Provincial Park. The proposed Garibaldi at Squamish development would be on a ridge emanating southwest from the mountain, Brohm Ridge, which is mostly just outside the park. The area is visible from many places in Squamish. The development would go from the foot of the ridge (just off highway 99) to a shoulder at about 1,800 metres - treeline.

Much of Brohm Ridge was clearcut logged in the later 1960s, and a ski lift built to a chalet on a shoulder near treeline. It is possible, as with Cypress Bowl/Cypress Provincial Park, that the development was a pretext for logging some valuable timber. I don’t think Brohm Ridge ever operated as a ski area. It was probably too early in terms of the market and demand - at the time Whistler existed, though it was smaller than now, but Cypress didn’t open until 1974 Presentational Image, and Blackcomb until 1979. I have vague memories of Brohm Ridge, or at least the developers behind it, having financial problems.

For a few years in the early 1970s there was a caretaker at the chalet, who was always happy to have visitors, especially in winter. He rather liked to drink. I hiked and ski toured up there a few times then. The lifts hung forlornly, rusting away - I believe they were later removed.

There have been several proposals since the 1970s to revive the Brohm Ridge development, most recently as the Garibaldi at Squamish. I don’t know how serious earlier proposals were, and suspect that the provincial governments of the time had little interest in encouraging competition for Whistler/Blackcomb. The current proposal seems more substantial.

I don’t know if the terrain and elevation of Brohm Ridge is such as to make it a viable ski area, but suspect that with global warming, it would be marginal. Even Whistler would be higher, drier and cooler, the Interior and Rockies much more so. Upper Brohm Ridge can get a lot of snow, but it’s often heavy snow, and it can be cloudy there a lot.

There is the question of who owns or manages the land that the Garibaldi at Squamish would be on, or what land use planning applies. The base may be within the District of Squamish, and the entire area (outside the park) in Squamish-Lillooet Regional District. Whether the land is privately owned, provincial forest, something else, or some combination of these is relevant. Not to mention whether Squamish’s First Peoples have asserted an interest in the area.

There are other proposed ski area developments in the Squamish-Pemberton area, most notably Powder Mountain on the Squamish-Cheakamus divide, and one off the Duffey Lake road. The Powder Mountain proposal reappeared about once a decade from the late 1960s onward, but with recent activities in the Callaghan Valley seems finally to have been laid to rest. The provincial park, first peoples’ land claims, and the new nordic centre don’t really leave much room for a major development, though you never know. The Duffey Lake road proposal seems to still be active.

As snowmobiling, all terrain vehicles and dirt biking became more popular in the 1980s, they gradually took over the Brohm Ridge area. I prefer peace in the mountains, haven’t been there for some time, and so can’t report as to the current situation in terms of any impacts they’ve had. I believe a snowmobile club has a permit from the provincial government to use the area. It would not surprise me to hear that motorized activities have had significant impacts there - although as the area had already been clearcut, and somewhat industrialized, that may not be as momentous as it might otherwise be.

Snowmobilers have sometimes been reported as going well into Garibaldi Park from Brohm Ridge, although they are not permitted there. There has been significant pressure from motorized recreationists to permit snowmobiling in the Park, indeed a through route from Brohm Ridge to Cheakamus Lake. (Snowmobilers also extensively use the area just west of the Black Tusk, and again have sometimes been heard to stray into the Park.) The last master plan for Garibaldi Park was done in 1990, and ought to soon be updated, given all the development to the west and southwest of the park, and all the commercial and industrial pressures. That would inevitably lead to intense lobbying by the motorists and commercial interests, eager to further encroach on the Park.

The Garibaldi at Squamish would displace snowmobilers from Brohm Ridge, and they are already presenting that as an argument for being permitted in Garibaldi Park, and other areas. They are a well-organized lobby.

Garibaldi Provincial Park was established in 1920/27, in large part through the work of the B.C. Mountaineering Club and others. Its boundaries have changed often, but have been stable for the last 18 years. There were several deletions from 1964 (when Whistler was first established) through to 1990, all in favour of the developments at Whistler and then Blackcomb. In 1990, the government established that the boundaries of the Park could only be further changed by act of the legislature - right after taking more land out of it. The then owners of Whistler-Blackcomb also promised then never to ask for more land from the Park.

Most of Garibaldi Park is wild land if not wilderness, despite its proximity to Vancouver, Squamish and Whistler.

Development to the west and southwest of the Park is placing intense pressure on it, which is likely to increase. The Garibaldi at Squamish proposal has to be seen in that context. The proponents would likely ask, now or later, for boundary rationalization in their favour, and the existence of another major industrial development beside the Park would undoubtedly increase pressure on it. (It might also improve access, although the nearby glaciers would have some influence on that too.) The issue is as much the future of Garibaldi Park as it is good planning for the Squamish area.

Few ski areas are in any case economically viable just as ski areas - as others have mentioned, it’s all the other things, such as real estate development, retail services, and other recreation that make them pay. Especially real estate. That certainly seems to be the case with the Garibaldi at Squamish.

Other suggested upthread (in effect) that Squamish grew because of Whistler. Not quite. Certainly Squamish is now in part a service centre for Whistler, and provides housing for many who work at Whistler. But Squamish has a proud past as a logging, railway and port town, not to mention as a home for its First People. It was well-established by the time Whistler really came on the scene in the 1970s. Squamish now has a more diverse economy and culture, although there can be little doubt that in many respects it is a suburb of Vancouver. It is stuck between Vancouver and Whistler, perhaps uneasily, but the greater influence is undoubtedly Vancouver.

Squamish has some major challenges, with economic change (closing of Woodfibre), development (the Garibaldi at Squamish is only part of what’s happening), and a history of myopic planning until a few years ago. The town may not be in the driver’s seat when it comes to the Garibaldi at Squamish, but it certainly can have some influence on what happens. As is so common with issues there, it’s much more than a local issue.

If you live in the Squamish area, or are simply someone concerned about the future of Garibaldi Park, you should learn more about this issue, and get involved.

trad
Member
Posts: 106
trad
Post Re: Garabaldi on the mountain (survey)
on: May 18, 2008, 05:38

It is absurd to claim that the Access Society has done nothing to protect the rights of climbers in (at ?) Squamish. Trad may disagree with the results, or feel different things should have been done. If so, I hope that Trad has or will put some effort into making the desired change, that being how democracy works. Anonymous vague gripes aren’t very constructive.

Anders,

First thank-you for the spelling error.

I have been putting an effort into climbers access longer then the BC Access Society has been around. I have on several occasions talked with and met with landowners to allow climbers access to lands. I have also had contacts through out the last twenty years with Alberta Parks trying to get better access for climbers through Ranchers lands in South Alberta. And I have made it possible for people to gain Access to certain Ice climbing areas that are on private lands near Canmore.

As for BC. I was working with the locals at Horn lake years before hand and can still climb in that area as others with NO threat of any kind. And be welcome. And I have been at several meetings with logging companies to allow access on logging roads. I was also working with Several land owners in the Terrace area and Native bands to allow future access for climbers with great success.

It was the Rat Pack that funded the Ski resort. Money went bad and several very shady deals were broken.

Anders,
I know that the Access Society has done some good. Not in question. However they have also stopped other climbers access in other areas because of the way the Access Society responded and deals were broken and that are not in the best interest to all climbers. Just the ones that love the Society concepts.

As for agendas at Powell River - well, there are about 30 climbers gathered this weekend in the Eldred Valley, in the name of the Access Society and the climbing community there, for their annual Adopt-a-Crag. They’re doing a bunch of trail work, raising the profile of the area, and having some fun. The established campground is recognized as a recreation site, but is threatened by powerlines from a mini-hydro development.

Now this is where the problem for the Access Society comes in for me and several others who do not like to admit it in a forum but agree.

Did you read my first post about why it is so important that people go up and see the place. I was trashed again. Because I was not a member of the BC Access Society and was not allowed to promote the place. What????

The mere mention of Powell River and the Eldred brings up The Access Society. And anything you would like to do to promote the area must be passed by the Access Society. I was at my kids school the other day as they had a climbing wall and had a chat with another local who completley agrees. Certain people have put their Talons into the place and feel they own it. And will not allow others to be able to promote the place or attempt to get others to help. Unless it goes through the access society. Why is that?

Here is the main reason that the BC Access Society is so strong in Powell River: Certain people did do loads of work into the Eldred. No doubt about it. None. However they wanted to have control of the place kinda like a camp ground. They went for a tenure of the place and were told how much that would cost. After they did not have even close to enough cash and still wanted control they looked for another means of having it. Then comes along the BC Access Society. Still have control but without the cost. At the same time camp 4C’s camp ground and all the work was still being done with a blind eye by Forrest Rangers. Man had a enviro study happen along it would have changed everything. The camp was build and alot of work went into the camp. Without consent. This lack of consent and a need for a lobby group to get a recreation camp ground sanction ( so nobody with the cash could get a tenure of the Eldred) is how the BC Access Society got involved. Not for the climbers but for control.

Now why is it such a problem to be allowed to promote and do the same without the Access Society saying thats a Access Society decision why you hold no tenure to the area. You should be happy that others want to spend their money doing something good for the area. Nobody owns that place everybody should be treated with the same respect. Like I said others have said the same. But they are not interested in being sh!t on by people who do not understand all of the facts and reasons.

With all do respect Anders. I have been working for climbers for years and have done loads for climbers. Only in Canada.

I also would like to add just because you do not go on that side of the Mountain does not mean what is going on is not horrible to the area.

The place is a sh!t hole because of the its not in my back yard idea. If you do not care enough about one side of the mountain why do you care about the development? The development is on the same side of the mounatin that is not in your back yard.

Also I have donated several thounsand dollars of my own money towards expeditions all over the world and here in Canada.

To gain access from the lodge would be great for everybody including mother nature. The area needs to have mountain people. Not control freaks that need to have motor cross bikes trashing everything in sight.

I guess you know which Access Society we are now talking about.

Sorry for the grammar mistakes. I hope that did not take away from my point.

Derek B

cbovard
Member
Posts: 6
cbovard
Post Re: Garabaldi on the mountain (survey)
on: May 27, 2008, 06:19

Yes it does derek, yes it does.

Have a good day.

trad
Member
Posts: 106
trad
Post Re: Garabaldi on the mountain (survey)
on: May 27, 2008, 22:41

Does that make you feel better Frodoz?

Now stop with your dumb-ass e-mails OK

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