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Author	Topic: CLIMBERS HONOURED WITH MOUNTAIN FESTIVAL AWARD

harihari

Member
Posts: 305

Re: CLIMBERS HONOURED WITH MOUNTAIN FESTIVAL AWARD
on: July 2, 2008, 15:38

I think this award is lame, and both House and Twight have made perceptive comments about awards (the Piolet among other things).

a) How do you define boldness? A couple of enthusiastic but scared-sh*tless gumbies putting up their first 5.7 route is just as bold as Matt Madaloni or whoever freeing Uncle Ben’s or whatever. What if you have an older climber putting up routes– is Fred Becky FAing at 86 a lesser thing than FAs of V14 by 24 year olds? What exactly is innovation? And if you base the thing on grades, why bother? Sonnie Trotter, Chris Sharma etc etc already get magazine articles, sponsorship $$ etc to allow them to do their thing.

b) People are going to argue about oh gee, _____ should have won it, not _____. Why introduce that?

c) Why do we need to introduce the whole competition thing to outdoor climbing? Every climber knows that climbing is ultimately a kind of interior mental exploration done by means of moving up on rock. The only real competition and meaning is for yourself.

If soembody wants to spend 0 a year on an award and God knows how much on a trophy, they could do much greater service by providing bolts and anchors for old-route restoration.

chris stolz

Watch an 18-pitch free route go up at
http://gumbiesoncrack.blogspot.com

johna

Member
Posts: 45

Re: CLIMBERS HONOURED WITH MOUNTAIN FESTIVAL AWARD
on: July 3, 2008, 14:33

All awards are by their nature, subjective. That does not mean we should not give awards, just recognize their nature and accept the rules of each particular one.

I like awards because I derive some measure of satisfaction from reading about hard, bold climbs. The climbers’ accomplishments motivate me. Although I am and will never be a world class climber, when I push my limits on some heinous gunks 5.6 or jtree 5.2 I feel connected to those hardmen and women. Awards just highlight some special climbs that show us what’s possible.

Perhaps there is a sponsor out there who would like to honour the bravest climber on a 5.7. Until then, let’s delight, gush and oohaww about the improbable climb made possible, not the unlikely person who somehow succeeds. Those awards are rightly called the Special Olympics–and I honour those athletes too.

flame away.

changlama

Member
Posts: 26

Re: CLIMBERS HONOURED WITH MOUNTAIN FESTIVAL AWARD
on: July 3, 2008, 15:23

I think award means recognition of achievement not competition…

harihari

Member
Posts: 305

Re: CLIMBERS HONOURED WITH MOUNTAIN FESTIVAL AWARD
on: July 3, 2008, 20:44

Peter Croft wrote once that when he was in high school, his coach (I think for track & field) told him that he wasn’t cut out to be a serious competitive athlete. He said later (and has been echoed by Lynn Hill) that what appealed to him about climbing was that it does NOT involve competition, and that its deepest rewards flow out of an honest and direct engagement with the rock and oneself.

In Croft’s terms, he’s got that ground-up ethos, and he is very particular about the style in which he does climbs. (e.g. he once said that he grabbed fixed gear on a route he was free-soloing. So when he was done, he had freesoloed the route, but…so he had to go back and re-solo it, cos for him he didn’t want to climb with a big but). Hill said that comeptition climbing for her in the late ’80s and early ’90s was fun, and a way to pay the bills, but that her proudest achievements were on real rock. Both talk about creativity and determination being part of the game, and the reward is self-satisfaction and shared experiences.

Not that I at my best climb even close to Croft on his weakest days, but he’s got a point: when we reject the outward crap, and we focus on fien-tuning our abilities, guts, imaginations whatever, THAT is what real climbing is about.

Also there is the question of how you compare wildly different achievements on rock. In indoor climbing or boudlering, everybody tries the same routes/problems. How do you compare free climbing, freesoloing, sport climbing, aid, bouldering etc when you present an award?

chris stolz

Watch an 18-pitch free route go up at
http://gumbiesoncrack.blogspot.com

trad

Member
Posts: 106

Re: CLIMBERS HONOURED WITH MOUNTAIN FESTIVAL AWARD
on: July 3, 2008, 21:48

changlama wrote:I think award means recognition of achievement not competition…

Except when the award creates competition then it is what?

Cheers

sark astiq

Member
Posts: 252

Re: CLIMBERS HONOURED WITH MOUNTAIN FESTIVAL AWARD
on: July 4, 2008, 08:13

It sounds like it’s basically an excuse to give some old climbers beer money. Let’s see the shortlist, changlamayomama!

johna

Member
Posts: 45

Re: CLIMBERS HONOURED WITH MOUNTAIN FESTIVAL AWARD
on: July 4, 2008, 09:13

I would be very surprised if any of the climbers/mountaineers who are worthy of one of these awards, climb for the outside recognition. I wonder though about the Russian climbers who were awarded the coveted Snow Leopard for climbing a bunch of hard mountains in Europe and Asia. Perhaps some of them did/do those climbs for the honour of the distinction.

As well, other countries, like Iran and Poland, for example, had national mountaineering teams. Those who qualified had to prove their abilities by climbing certain routes. Those climbers may have extrinsic motivations, unlike, and I argue this, climbers who are nominated for awards like the Squamish award or the Piolet D’or.

I would argue in fact that sponsored climbers, or those with book deals (Hunt on the Everest climb in the 1950’s, for example) are motivated to summit by their obligations to their sponsors.

changlama

Member
Posts: 26

Re: CLIMBERS HONOURED WITH MOUNTAIN FESTIVAL AWARD
on: July 24, 2008, 06:07

Past era recipient: Ed Cooper and Jim Baldwin - 1961 - Grand Wall
Present era recipient: Sonnie Trotter - 2006 - Cobra Crack

chicken sandwich

Member
Posts: 13

Re: CLIMBERS HONOURED WITH MOUNTAIN FESTIVAL AWARD
on: July 25, 2008, 21:40

Past era recipient: Ed Cooper and Jim Baldwin - 1961 - Grand Wall
Present era recipient: Sonnie Trotter - 2006 - Cobra Crack

Yessir very Publick beer money but quite respectable Publicity. Do we all feel good, now?

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